Monday, September 27, 2010

Draft Final Trails Map

Please take a look at the Draft Final Trails map.  This map has been compiled from the comments from the community, the Deparrtment of Fish and Game, the City of Rancho Palos Verdes, and from review of the applicable regulations.  Please take a look and post your comments.   Remember to attend our upcoming workshop this Wednesday on September 29th at 6:30 pm.  See you there. 


  1. Overall great meeting tonight. I'm really hoping that the final decision will be to make Possum Trail multi-use. We didn't hear any logical or legitimate reason it shouldn't be. The misunderstanding regarding access was resolved so it would really be unfair to discriminate against a specific user group (i.e. bike riders) based soley on the preference of another group. Thank You for your understanding and allowing me to me part of the process. Sincerely, James Jongkind - Ridgecrest, RPV.

  2. In general the meeting was informative and logical explanations were given for most trail variations. Bridge construction costs plus concern of exact property borders were a couple along with plantation project for natural habitat restoration. Valid points were put forward to allow bicycles into Possum trail, pictures shown by attendees showed that this area is actually used very little by anybody and its a shady spot to take it easy and relax whether walking or riding. There was the usual anti bike group there with the same stories concerned that trails would become race tracks. In reality most bikers are out there to enjoy the ambiance get exercise and meet people. The more aggressive down hill bikers typically have heavier bikes and are not going to use these trails as they are too much hard work to get back up to the top again. I think its fair to say that with the Rangers patrols and an assertive effort by other concerned bikers has greatly diminished the radical down hill element that causes friction. These meetings have been great in bringing users together and it was good to see a good cross section of all users putting forward there views to share. I raised the issue about access for residents of Portuguese Bend (Narcissi Rd.) who have no cycling access to the trails, this is still valid and hopefully something will be opened up for them. Why should horses and walkers have multiple access points and cyclists none at all?

  3. Having the Possum trail and Gary's Gulch both as Multi-use trails makes so much sense. This is especially so for Possum. I have been there at least a 100x's on a bike and I have never, ever encountered anyone else on the trail. Not a hiker, biker or equestrian. The only other people there would be the friends or my family members that I'm traveling with. I bike to Possum since it is beyond my running or hiking distance limit from my home. This trail is the last one like it standing. All others that offered a somewhat similiar experience are either gone of no longer multi-use (mostly in Portuguese Bend Preserve). It is a perfect, slow traveling, fun turning between the trees and easy resting spot and best of all, totally shaded. Line of sight is never a problem and I heard that mentioned by Malisa (NFS) at last meeting. She probably has never ridden a bike through here because that would really never be a problem unless some one was purposely hidding behind a tree.
    I also could never imagine a horse going through there due to lower tree branches but I hope someday I do get to witness that.

    All the stories of multi-use and people not getting along, I've only seen this at these meetings. In 30 years of hiking, running and biking here with my 3 boys, never have I seen or had a problem with any user or user group.

    Why can't everyone just get along and not be so self centered.

    Keep the trails multi-use especially for the young kids. My boys grew up here and had some of the best mechanical learning experiences on bikes. Now theey all grow and all three have either a BSME or a MSME due to early years working & fixing their bikes.

    Wes Prunckle

  4. I want to thank those involved in creating the new Filiorum trails plan workshop format. The inclusion of experienced National Park Service moderators, Department of Fish & Game representatives, and RPV park rangers has helped neutralize distorted habit protection claims and inflated user conflict assertions made to justify narrow views on trail use.

    It is imperative for us to use clear and measurable data to determine what trails will be kept and who will be allowed to use them. In the absence of specific justification we should keep all of the main social trails and designate them multiuse. In cases where concerns are expressed but lack specific details we should not make permanent changes until the appropriate evaluation is complete.

    Fact based decisions will result in a plan that both protects and enhances habitat while providing appropriate recreational opportunities for everyone.

  5. I'm concerned about elimination of the Jack's Brim trail. This popular trail is a much easier route around Jack's Hat and has great views of Vanderlip Canyon, making it unique (not redundant). I was told the trail was eliminated because the canyon below has a gnat catcher population. I have a few questions.

    Was that decision based on a recent survey or the older 2004 survey? Is it possible to keep the trail until a new up-to-date survey is conducted?

    I know that gnat catcher populations are thriving at the Ocean Trails Reserve where there is substantial trail traffic. User traffic is low on this trail. Is this something that is considered?

    Is it feasible to reroute the trail to avoid gnat catcher encroachment? Rerouting the trail a bit higher at the north end will provide addition separation from gnat catchers shown on the 2004 habitat survey. The proposed reroute can be viewed at's_Brim_reroute.jpg

    I hope there's a way to keep Jack's Brim trail. If anyone has suggestions, please comment.

  6. Thanks for a well run meeting. Imagine what could get done if all the time and energy, spent on territorial conflicts, was put into collaborative trail and habitat restoration in these beautiful Reserves. To those who spoke against multiuse, I know this comes from your passion. I ask for your compassion - for us responsible cyclists - the ones who climb the steep Filiorum trails. We've spent years educating cyclists about trail etiquette, and the Park Rangers comments show it's paid off for us all. Trail segregation builds resentment, when the daunting volume of work needed in the Reserves demands cooperation. We have much in common: love of the outdoors, and support for conservation with our money and our volunteering. Let's work together.

    I'm disappointed the Brim Trail, which I rode every time I visited the Filiorum, is being eliminated. For me I favored it's easier climb up, over the steeper Jacks Hat alternative. Most of us are not young any more! The habitat area between Brim and Troop 719 is large and very inaccessible. It's hard to see the seldom used Brim trail as having significant impact. The trail would provide firefighters a path to drag hose, while fighting any fire from the canyon below.


  7. I missed the first two meeting but the map seems pretty good. I like to hike really steep trails like the one that goes straight down from the houses. I know it's kind of messed up but why did they take it out? We need at least a few tough trails too. As far as who can go on the trails I don't see any problems. You never meet anyone there anyway.

    It would really help if there were some names or numbers on the trails. Likewise for some explanations about what they did. If you want the public to understand any of this give more us than a map.

  8. Does anyone ever answer questions here or is this the dead letter box?

    Met a guy yesterday who called the trail materhorn. Still don't know if it right. I don't see the one that runs around the little peak in the middle of the map either. Really poor map without names.